Letting God do the Work
In the post, All Day, I set up the Rosary as one of the greatest examples of Prayer available to us as Catholics. At this, both Protestant and Catholic readers have asked for a greater description of the Rosary, both the why and the how we should pray it. So here goes:
Why Pray the Rosary?
The Rosary is one of the most beautiful and effective prayers in the Catholic arsenal. Literally, the name means "garland of roses", but behind the soft, gentle name lies a powerful weapon in our fight against sin and temptation in our lives, and in the world. Used properly, the Rosary is a powerful spiritual weapon used to bring forth many heavenly graces and draw us closer to Jesus and Mary.
On the 8th of March, 2003, Pope John Paul II said,
The beauty of prayer, through the Rosary, was described beautifully by fellow Catholic convert, Owen Swain, in the archives of his spiritual oddysey. In a post titled Bead by Bead, he writes,
How to Pray the Rosary
The Rosary beads are a chain of many beads that form a loop. Trailing from the loop is a small stretch of 5 beads ending with a Crucifix. Where the tail connects to the loop, there is a medal, usually of Mary, or Jesus, or a saint. The one hanging from my rearview mirror has the Eucharistic Chalice with a Host above it. From the medal are ten beads, a slight space, a single bead, another space, ten more beads, etc. In all, there are five groups of ten beads, with a single bead between each group of ten, making four (plus the medal).
Beginning with the Crucifix, we pray the Apostles' Creed (See the prayers below). Then, while fingering the first of the five beads, we pray the Our Father. For the next three beads, we pray a Hail Mary each. On the fifth bead, we pray a Glory Be.
When we get to the medal, we announce the first mystery that we intend to meditate on (the mysteries will be explained below as well). Then we pray another Our Father. For the next 10 beads we pray a Hail Mary each, while meditating and praying about the mystery that we have just announced. When we come to the space between the tenth bead and the single bead, we pray a Glory Be, and then a Fatima Prayer. At the single bead, we announce the next mystery, and start the process over. This continues until all five mysteries are prayed through and meditated upon, and we arrive at the medal again. In the space after the final tenth bead and the medal, we again pray a Glory Be, and a Fatima Prayer, as we have done. Then, at the Medal, we pray a Marian prayer such as the Hail, Holy Queen (which is my preference) or another prayer to Mary of our choice. Then we cross ourselves and go on our way, knowing that we are not walking alone!
The Prayers of the Rosary
The Apostles' Creed
This prayer is a brief summary of our beliefs. It is called "The Apostles' Creed" because it was a summary of their teachings, passed on by the early Church.
This is the prayer that Jesus taught His disciples, when they asked Him how to pray in Matthew 6:9-13.
This prayer is also taken from Scripture--at least the first half. The first two lines are Gabriel's greeting to Mary in Luke 1:28, and the second two are Elizabeth's greeting to Mary in Luke 1:42. The second half is a simple prayer asking Mary to pray for us.
This is a simple doxology glorifying the Trinity.
This prayer was given to the three children of Fatima, Portugal, when Mary appeared to them in a series of visions. She asked them to pray it when they prayed the Rosary. In my mind, it proves the desire of Mary to lead us to Jesus:
This poetic prayer to Mary can cause concern to Protestants, but we must understand that everything that we hold in this prayer is only because of Jesus, and because she brought Jesus into the world in order to be our salvation.
1. Not all repetition is vain. Otherwise, many of the Psalms would fall under Jesus' condemnation, making Jesus a contradiction, since the Psalms are the inspired word of God. See, for example, Psalm 136, where the second line of each of its 26 verses is "For His faithful love endures forever." Now that's repetitious!
2. The focus of the prayer isn't on the words being said. They form a prayerful backdrop for the key part of the prayer--meditating on the life of Christ with Mary. Without this exercise of meditating on Christ, then yes, the Rosary would be vain repetition! The mysteries are the entire point of the Rosary! So what are they?
The Mysteries of the Rosary
By "mystery" it is meant an aspect of our faith that is miraculous, that we cannot comprehend. When it comes to the life of Christ, we will never comprehend how the Infinite, Almighty God could become a Man and live among us. Thus, everything that Christ did is a "mystery". In the Rosary, there are 20 mysteries, divided into four sets of five. One "rosary" is the praying of a set of 5, thus going around the loop.
The mysteries focus on Christ's birth, life, death, and resurrection. When we meditate on each mystery, it is important to focus on it as if we ourselves were there, witnessing the event. How would we have felt, or reacted, in that situation? When we do this, we go right into the pages of the Gospels with Mary, as she shows us her Son more clearly. As such, it is important that we read and learn the stories from the Bible itself. Therefore, I will include the place in the Bible where the story is found.
When we undertake to meditate on a mystery, it is helpful to offer a prayer intention. One will be suggested for furthering virtues in your life, as we discussed in the Seven Deadlies post.
Let us look at each mystery.
The Joyful Mysteries
These five mysteries focus on Jesus' birth and early childhood.
The Annunciation of Gabriel to Mary--Luke 1:26-38
Intention: When meditating on this mystery, pray for the humility of Mary when she responded to God's plan, saying, "You see before you the Lord's servant, let it happen to me as you have said" (Luke 1:38).
The Visitation of Mary to Elizabeth--Luke 1:39-56
Intention: When meditating on this mystery, pray that you would have a greater love for your neighbour (Matthew 22:39). Think of Mary, visiting her pregnant cousin, and helping her to keep house, while she herself is pregnant with the Saviour!
The Nativity of Jesus--Luke 2:1-21
Intention: Pray that Jesus would help you to be poor in spirit (Matthew 5:3), as He Himself was: The King of the Universe born in a barnyard feeding trough! If He would do this for us, what should we do for Him?
The Presentation of Jesus at the Temple--Luke 2:22-38
Intention: The Jewish people had to offer sacrifices of purification for every first-born child. When Mary and Joseph went to offer these sacrifices, two prophets, Simeon and Anna, give testimony to who Jesus is. If Mary and Joseph had not been obedient to even the seemingly minor points of the Law, Simeon would never have seen the Lord's promise fulfilled (Luke 2:26). Let us then pray for willingness to be obedient to Christ's laws.
Finding Jesus in the Temple at the age of 12--Luke 2:41-50
Intention: Jesus' parents lose track of Him on a pilgrimage to Jerusalem for Passover. In their worry they look everywhere, and finally find Him, a 12-year-old, teaching scribes and teachers of the Law! When they find Him, Mary and Joseph are filled with joy and relief. Let us pray that we would also be filled with joy at finding Christ working in our own lives--even in the places we least expect to see Him!
The Luminous Mysteries
These new mysteries, given by Pope John Paul 2 in 2002, highlight key events in the life and ministry of Jesus.
Jesus' Baptism--Matthew 3:1-17; Mark 1:1-11; Luke 3:1-22; John 1:29-34
Intention: At His baptism, the heavens were opened, and God proclaimed His love for Jesus, and sent the Holy Spirit to empower His ministry. Let us pray that we would have a fresh outpouring of the Holy Spirit in our lives.
Jesus Turning Water into Wine at the Wedding in Cana--John 2:1-12
Intention: In this story, we see Mary bringing the servants to Jesus so that He could meet their need, and she tells them the most important piece of advice ever: "Do whatever He tells you" (John 2:5). Let us pray and ask Mary to lead us into a deeper relationship with her Son.
The Proclamation of the Kingdom of God--Matthew 4:23; 5:1-7:29
Intention: Let us pray that we would be willing to proclaim Jesus' Kingdom as He sends us out. Let us pray that we are never too worried about what others think that we would deny Jesus!
The Transfiguration of Jesus--Matthew 17:1-8; Mark 9:2-8
Intention: When Jesus was transfigured, He displayed His true glory for a moment, to Peter, James and John. Let us pray that He would reveal His glory in our own lives.
The Last Supper--Matthew 26:26-29; Mark 14:22-25; Luke 22:7-20
Intention: Let us pray that we would come to know Jesus truly as He gives Himself to us in the Eucharist.
The Sorrowful Mysteries
These mysteries focus on Jesus' suffering and death, which brings us forgiveness for our sins.
Jesus' Agony in the Garden--Matthew 26:36-46; Mark 14:32-42; Luke 22:39-46
Intention: As we meditate on Jesus praying and sweating blood for us, let us pray for true sorrow and true repentance for our sins which brought Him here.
Jesus' Arrest and Scourging--Matthew 26:47-27:26; Mark 14:43-15:15; Luke 22:47-23:25; John 18:1-19:16
Intention: As we meditate on Jesus' suffering, let us realise that it brought us our redemption: "He was being wounded for our rebellions, crushed because of our guilt; the punishment reconciling us fell on Him, and we have been healed by His bruises" (Isaiah 53:5). Let us pray and thank Him for His salvation, and pray that we would understand the value of suffering in our own lives.
The Crowning with Thorns--Matthew 27:27-31; Mark 15:16-20
Intention: Let us pray, as we meditate on Jesus' humiliation, that we will have the strength to stand up for Him, even in the face of ridicule and death.
Jesus' Carrying His Cross--Matthew 27:32-33; Mark 15:20-22; Luke 23:26-32; John 19:17-18
Intention: As we meditate on Christ carrying His Cross, let us pray for the patience that He had in enduring this torture.
Jesus' Crucifixion and Death--Matthew 27:32-56; Mark 15:23-39; Luke 23:33-49; John 19:18-37
Intention: As we meditate on Jesus' death, let us reflect on the care He had for those around Him, even in His agony. Let us pray that we would persevere in our walk with Him always, so that we would inherit the crown of life.
The Glorious Mysteries
These mysteries focus on Jesus' resurrection and His power in the Church
The Resurrection--Matthew 28:1-10; Mark 16:1-13; Luke 24:1-42; John 20:1-21:25
Intention: As we meditate on Jesus' Resurrection, pray that He would increase our faith in Him.
The Ascension--Matthew 28:16-20; Mark 16:14-20; Luke 24:44-53; Acts 1:1-11
Intention: As we meditate on Jesus' Ascension into heaven, let us pray that He would fill us with hope in the angels' words, "Why are you...standing here looking into the sky? This Jesus who has been taken up from you will come back in the same way as you have seen Him go to heaven" (Acts 1:11).
The Outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost--Acts 2:1-36
Intention: As we meditate, let us pray that the Holy Spirit would fill us with a greater love and zeal for God.
Mary's Assumption into Heaven--Revelation 11:19-12:1
Intention: At the end of her life, Mary was assumed bodily into Jesus' presence in heaven so that she who had been graced to be without sin, would not suffer the unltimate consiquence of sin: death. Let us pray for the desire to join Mary and her Son, Jesus, in heaven, so that we would not stray from following Him here on earth.
Mary's Coronation as Queen of Heaven--Revelation 12:1
Intention: Let us pray and ask Mary to increase our trust in her intercession for us, and for the entire Church, of which she is the Mother (Revelation 12:17).
These mysteries of the Rosary, when we pray them, and meditate on them, will lead us to a greater knowledge of Christ, and a deeper relationship with Him. Let us take our cue from Mary herself, and ponder all these things in our hearts (Luke 2:51).
In conclusion, I'd like to leave some tips when praying the Rosary:
1. Set aside a specific time each day for reciting the Rosary, and stick to it. Whether it's in the morning when you get up, or before you go to bed. Maybe when you get home from school, or after you finish homework. Or, possibly, even say a decade on the bus ride to and/or from school.
2. Pray with your heart, not just your lips, so that prayer becomes a joy to you rather than a burden.
3. Announce each Mystery, and name a prayer intention, whether for you or for another, that is specific to that Mystery, such as I've suggested in the listing of each Mystery. But by all means, be creative. My suggestions are just that: suggestions!
4. Pause for a moment to meditate on and visually contemplate the Gospel Mystery being said.
5. Make the Rosary part of a greater spiritual program in your life, that includes Mass, receiving the Eucharist, Confession, reading the Bible, and other things.
And remember, God helps you pray, and He understands when we just can't seem to. To Him, even the very desire to pray is itself a prayer. So stick with it.
God bless!
Pray for me!
Why Pray the Rosary?
The Rosary is one of the most beautiful and effective prayers in the Catholic arsenal. Literally, the name means "garland of roses", but behind the soft, gentle name lies a powerful weapon in our fight against sin and temptation in our lives, and in the world. Used properly, the Rosary is a powerful spiritual weapon used to bring forth many heavenly graces and draw us closer to Jesus and Mary.
On the 8th of March, 2003, Pope John Paul II said,
Today...I am handing you the Rosary beads. Through prayer and meditation on the mysteries, Mary leads you safely towards her Son! Do not be ashamed to recite the Rosary alone, while you walk along the streets to school, to the university or to work, or as you commute by public transport. Adopt the habit of reciting it among yourselves, in your groups, movements and associations. Do not hesitate to suggest that it be recited at hime ... because it rekindles and strengthens the bonds between family members. This prayer will help you to be strong in your faith, constant in charity, joyful and persevering in hope.Beyond the exortation of John Paul the Great, Mary herself appeared to two men at different times, St. Dominic and Bl. Alan de la Roche, and gave them a total of fifteen promises to those who would pray the Rosary every day. These promises should inspire us to greater devotion. I reproduce them here, but they can also be found at Our Lady's Warriors.org Click the link to read an explanation of each of these 15 promises.
1. Whosoever shall faithfully serve me by the recitation of the Rosary shall receive signal graces.Our Lady's Warriors.org reminds us that "these promises mean that, by faithfully and devoutly praying the Rosary, Our Lady will obtain for us the necessary Graces to obtain said promises. It is still up to each individual soul to respond to those Graces in order to obtain salvation."
2. I promise my special protection and the greatest graces to all those who shall recite the Rosary.
3. The Rosary shall be a powerful armor against hell, it will destroy vice, decrease sin and defeat heresies.
4. It will cause good works to flourish; it will obtain for souls the abundant mercy of God; it will withdraw the hearts of men from the love of the world and its vanities, and will lift them to the desire for Eternal Things. Oh, that souls would sanctify themselves by this means.
5. The soul which recommends itself to me by the recitation of the Rosary shall not perish.
6. Whosoever shall recite the Rosary devoutly, applying himself to the consideration of its Sacred Mysteries shall never be conquered by misfortune. God will not chastise him in His justice, he shall not perish by an unprovided death; if he be just he shall remain in the grace of God, and become worthy of Eternal Life.
7. Whoever shall have a true devotion for the Rosary shall not die without the Sacraments of the Church.
8. Those who are faithful to recite the Rosary shall have during their life and at their death the Light of God and the plenitude of His Graces; at the moment of death they shall participate in the Merits of the Saints in Paradise.
9. I shall deliver from purgatory those who have been devoted to the Rosary.
10. The faithful children of the Rosary shall merit a high degree of Glory in Heaven.
11. You shall obtain all you ask of me by recitation of the Rosary.
12. All those who propagate the Holy Rosary shall be aided by me in their necessities.
13. I have obtained from my Divine Son that all the advocates of the Rosary shall have for intercessors the entire Celestial Court during their life and at the hour of death.
14. All who recite the Rosary are my Sons, and brothers of my Only Son Jesus Christ.
15. Devotion to my Rosary is a great sign of predestination.
The beauty of prayer, through the Rosary, was described beautifully by fellow Catholic convert, Owen Swain, in the archives of his spiritual oddysey. In a post titled Bead by Bead, he writes,
The fact of the rosary is this, it is not work but rather I rest in the rhythm of the Hail Marys, focusing on the meaning and prayer intention of the specific mystery from the life of Christ and his Mother, it is a realization that causes me to laugh that I ever thought that Catholics work for their salvation, in the sense that Protestants so often accuse Catholics of working for their salvation. In the rosary ours is to be obedient while God does the work of answering the prayer yes, but arguably more importantly as we rest in the rosary God does a work in us. I gave myself over early in faith to the idea that a central point of the rosary is seeing God’s Son through Mary’s eyes because she is our greatest example as devoted Christian. What I gave my self over to in faith, the substance of things I did not then see, I have now begun to see and understand and the speed at which this has happened I can only attribute to the grace of God. I could not have anticipated this and so I laugh a laugh of joy for God and not of derision for my Protestant brothers and sisters or Catholics for that matter who see no place for a holy devotion to the rosary. Yes, I have been taken by surprise in receiving what I asked for.I echo Owen's sentiments. Through the Rosary, I have grown closer to Jesus, through His Mother, than I ever had achieved at any time in my life before!
...
Now, no struggle in prayer, this is new for me. It is a kind of freedom in the spirit that I have not known before and I was a card carrying Pentecostal for over two decades. There is nothing vain in the repetitions of the rosary as the focus is Christ, which is more than one can say for endless list prayers that for all their spiritual sounding tone are at least as much self orriented as they are Christ centric. Instead when prayed with attention, intention and devotion there is an increase of hope, faith and love as well as practical reminders, promtings if you like, about specific intentions or prayer requests as I used to call them.
And by no struggle I mean not that we should not by times be hard at it, struggling in faith or doubt or hope or confession as we pray nor do I mean that setting time aside and getting down to the business of meeting with God is not sometimes an effort of the will. What I mean is that, perhaps to my shame, for the first time in a long time I am drawn to prayer, I want to return to the beads and the meditations on my Lord. What I mean is that as I come to those times my mind does not wander, I am not adrift thinking of what to pray for next or reciting an endless list of items to God and detailing some of them in such a way as if you would think I thought God was unaware of the details. Do you see that?
...
Praying the rosary, even for a novice, is a bit like watching God thread the spirit of his blessed Son into my life, bead by bead. Nothing vain in that.
How to Pray the Rosary
The Rosary beads are a chain of many beads that form a loop. Trailing from the loop is a small stretch of 5 beads ending with a Crucifix. Where the tail connects to the loop, there is a medal, usually of Mary, or Jesus, or a saint. The one hanging from my rearview mirror has the Eucharistic Chalice with a Host above it. From the medal are ten beads, a slight space, a single bead, another space, ten more beads, etc. In all, there are five groups of ten beads, with a single bead between each group of ten, making four (plus the medal).
Beginning with the Crucifix, we pray the Apostles' Creed (See the prayers below). Then, while fingering the first of the five beads, we pray the Our Father. For the next three beads, we pray a Hail Mary each. On the fifth bead, we pray a Glory Be.
When we get to the medal, we announce the first mystery that we intend to meditate on (the mysteries will be explained below as well). Then we pray another Our Father. For the next 10 beads we pray a Hail Mary each, while meditating and praying about the mystery that we have just announced. When we come to the space between the tenth bead and the single bead, we pray a Glory Be, and then a Fatima Prayer. At the single bead, we announce the next mystery, and start the process over. This continues until all five mysteries are prayed through and meditated upon, and we arrive at the medal again. In the space after the final tenth bead and the medal, we again pray a Glory Be, and a Fatima Prayer, as we have done. Then, at the Medal, we pray a Marian prayer such as the Hail, Holy Queen (which is my preference) or another prayer to Mary of our choice. Then we cross ourselves and go on our way, knowing that we are not walking alone!
The Prayers of the Rosary
The Apostles' Creed
This prayer is a brief summary of our beliefs. It is called "The Apostles' Creed" because it was a summary of their teachings, passed on by the early Church.
I believe in God, the Father AlmightyThe Our Father
Creator of Heaven and Earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord.
He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.
On the third day He rose again.
He ascended into Heaven.
He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Holy Catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting.
Amen.
This is the prayer that Jesus taught His disciples, when they asked Him how to pray in Matthew 6:9-13.
Our Father, who art in heavenThe Hail Mary
Hallowed by Thy Name.
Thy kingdom come,
Thy will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
And forgive us our trespasses
As we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from evil.
Amen.
This prayer is also taken from Scripture--at least the first half. The first two lines are Gabriel's greeting to Mary in Luke 1:28, and the second two are Elizabeth's greeting to Mary in Luke 1:42. The second half is a simple prayer asking Mary to pray for us.
Hail Mary, full of grace,The Glory Be
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou amongst women,
And blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God
Pray for us sinners,
Now, and at the hour of our death.
This is a simple doxology glorifying the Trinity.
Glory be to the Father,The Fatima Prayer
and to the Son,
and to the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning,
Is now, and forever will be,
World without end. Amen.
This prayer was given to the three children of Fatima, Portugal, when Mary appeared to them in a series of visions. She asked them to pray it when they prayed the Rosary. In my mind, it proves the desire of Mary to lead us to Jesus:
O my Jesus,The Hail, Holy Queen
Forgive us our sins,
Save us from the fires of hell,
And lead all souls to heaven--
Especially those in most need of Thy mercy.
Amen.
This poetic prayer to Mary can cause concern to Protestants, but we must understand that everything that we hold in this prayer is only because of Jesus, and because she brought Jesus into the world in order to be our salvation.
Hail, Holy Queen, Mother of Mercy,Those are the prayers of the Rosary. Many Protestants claim that the Rosary violates Jesus' condemnation of "vain repetition" in our prayers, since we repeat each prayer several times (Matthew 6:7-8). However, it is important to understand two things here:
Our life, our sweetness, and our hope.
To thee we cry, poor banished children of Eve.
To thee we lift up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this vale of tears.
Turn then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy towards us,
And show unto us the Most Blessed Fruit of thy womb, Jesus--
O clement, o loving, o sweet Virgin Mary.
Pray for us, most holy Mother of God,
That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.
Amen.
1. Not all repetition is vain. Otherwise, many of the Psalms would fall under Jesus' condemnation, making Jesus a contradiction, since the Psalms are the inspired word of God. See, for example, Psalm 136, where the second line of each of its 26 verses is "For His faithful love endures forever." Now that's repetitious!
2. The focus of the prayer isn't on the words being said. They form a prayerful backdrop for the key part of the prayer--meditating on the life of Christ with Mary. Without this exercise of meditating on Christ, then yes, the Rosary would be vain repetition! The mysteries are the entire point of the Rosary! So what are they?
The Mysteries of the Rosary
By "mystery" it is meant an aspect of our faith that is miraculous, that we cannot comprehend. When it comes to the life of Christ, we will never comprehend how the Infinite, Almighty God could become a Man and live among us. Thus, everything that Christ did is a "mystery". In the Rosary, there are 20 mysteries, divided into four sets of five. One "rosary" is the praying of a set of 5, thus going around the loop.
The mysteries focus on Christ's birth, life, death, and resurrection. When we meditate on each mystery, it is important to focus on it as if we ourselves were there, witnessing the event. How would we have felt, or reacted, in that situation? When we do this, we go right into the pages of the Gospels with Mary, as she shows us her Son more clearly. As such, it is important that we read and learn the stories from the Bible itself. Therefore, I will include the place in the Bible where the story is found.
When we undertake to meditate on a mystery, it is helpful to offer a prayer intention. One will be suggested for furthering virtues in your life, as we discussed in the Seven Deadlies post.
Let us look at each mystery.
The Joyful Mysteries
These five mysteries focus on Jesus' birth and early childhood.
The Annunciation of Gabriel to Mary--Luke 1:26-38
Intention: When meditating on this mystery, pray for the humility of Mary when she responded to God's plan, saying, "You see before you the Lord's servant, let it happen to me as you have said" (Luke 1:38).
The Visitation of Mary to Elizabeth--Luke 1:39-56
Intention: When meditating on this mystery, pray that you would have a greater love for your neighbour (Matthew 22:39). Think of Mary, visiting her pregnant cousin, and helping her to keep house, while she herself is pregnant with the Saviour!
The Nativity of Jesus--Luke 2:1-21
Intention: Pray that Jesus would help you to be poor in spirit (Matthew 5:3), as He Himself was: The King of the Universe born in a barnyard feeding trough! If He would do this for us, what should we do for Him?
The Presentation of Jesus at the Temple--Luke 2:22-38
Intention: The Jewish people had to offer sacrifices of purification for every first-born child. When Mary and Joseph went to offer these sacrifices, two prophets, Simeon and Anna, give testimony to who Jesus is. If Mary and Joseph had not been obedient to even the seemingly minor points of the Law, Simeon would never have seen the Lord's promise fulfilled (Luke 2:26). Let us then pray for willingness to be obedient to Christ's laws.
Finding Jesus in the Temple at the age of 12--Luke 2:41-50
Intention: Jesus' parents lose track of Him on a pilgrimage to Jerusalem for Passover. In their worry they look everywhere, and finally find Him, a 12-year-old, teaching scribes and teachers of the Law! When they find Him, Mary and Joseph are filled with joy and relief. Let us pray that we would also be filled with joy at finding Christ working in our own lives--even in the places we least expect to see Him!
The Luminous Mysteries
These new mysteries, given by Pope John Paul 2 in 2002, highlight key events in the life and ministry of Jesus.
Jesus' Baptism--Matthew 3:1-17; Mark 1:1-11; Luke 3:1-22; John 1:29-34
Intention: At His baptism, the heavens were opened, and God proclaimed His love for Jesus, and sent the Holy Spirit to empower His ministry. Let us pray that we would have a fresh outpouring of the Holy Spirit in our lives.
Jesus Turning Water into Wine at the Wedding in Cana--John 2:1-12
Intention: In this story, we see Mary bringing the servants to Jesus so that He could meet their need, and she tells them the most important piece of advice ever: "Do whatever He tells you" (John 2:5). Let us pray and ask Mary to lead us into a deeper relationship with her Son.
The Proclamation of the Kingdom of God--Matthew 4:23; 5:1-7:29
Intention: Let us pray that we would be willing to proclaim Jesus' Kingdom as He sends us out. Let us pray that we are never too worried about what others think that we would deny Jesus!
The Transfiguration of Jesus--Matthew 17:1-8; Mark 9:2-8
Intention: When Jesus was transfigured, He displayed His true glory for a moment, to Peter, James and John. Let us pray that He would reveal His glory in our own lives.
The Last Supper--Matthew 26:26-29; Mark 14:22-25; Luke 22:7-20
Intention: Let us pray that we would come to know Jesus truly as He gives Himself to us in the Eucharist.
The Sorrowful Mysteries
These mysteries focus on Jesus' suffering and death, which brings us forgiveness for our sins.
Jesus' Agony in the Garden--Matthew 26:36-46; Mark 14:32-42; Luke 22:39-46
Intention: As we meditate on Jesus praying and sweating blood for us, let us pray for true sorrow and true repentance for our sins which brought Him here.
Jesus' Arrest and Scourging--Matthew 26:47-27:26; Mark 14:43-15:15; Luke 22:47-23:25; John 18:1-19:16
Intention: As we meditate on Jesus' suffering, let us realise that it brought us our redemption: "He was being wounded for our rebellions, crushed because of our guilt; the punishment reconciling us fell on Him, and we have been healed by His bruises" (Isaiah 53:5). Let us pray and thank Him for His salvation, and pray that we would understand the value of suffering in our own lives.
The Crowning with Thorns--Matthew 27:27-31; Mark 15:16-20
Intention: Let us pray, as we meditate on Jesus' humiliation, that we will have the strength to stand up for Him, even in the face of ridicule and death.
Jesus' Carrying His Cross--Matthew 27:32-33; Mark 15:20-22; Luke 23:26-32; John 19:17-18
Intention: As we meditate on Christ carrying His Cross, let us pray for the patience that He had in enduring this torture.
Jesus' Crucifixion and Death--Matthew 27:32-56; Mark 15:23-39; Luke 23:33-49; John 19:18-37
Intention: As we meditate on Jesus' death, let us reflect on the care He had for those around Him, even in His agony. Let us pray that we would persevere in our walk with Him always, so that we would inherit the crown of life.
The Glorious Mysteries
These mysteries focus on Jesus' resurrection and His power in the Church
The Resurrection--Matthew 28:1-10; Mark 16:1-13; Luke 24:1-42; John 20:1-21:25
Intention: As we meditate on Jesus' Resurrection, pray that He would increase our faith in Him.
The Ascension--Matthew 28:16-20; Mark 16:14-20; Luke 24:44-53; Acts 1:1-11
Intention: As we meditate on Jesus' Ascension into heaven, let us pray that He would fill us with hope in the angels' words, "Why are you...standing here looking into the sky? This Jesus who has been taken up from you will come back in the same way as you have seen Him go to heaven" (Acts 1:11).
The Outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost--Acts 2:1-36
Intention: As we meditate, let us pray that the Holy Spirit would fill us with a greater love and zeal for God.
Mary's Assumption into Heaven--Revelation 11:19-12:1
Intention: At the end of her life, Mary was assumed bodily into Jesus' presence in heaven so that she who had been graced to be without sin, would not suffer the unltimate consiquence of sin: death. Let us pray for the desire to join Mary and her Son, Jesus, in heaven, so that we would not stray from following Him here on earth.
Mary's Coronation as Queen of Heaven--Revelation 12:1
Intention: Let us pray and ask Mary to increase our trust in her intercession for us, and for the entire Church, of which she is the Mother (Revelation 12:17).
These mysteries of the Rosary, when we pray them, and meditate on them, will lead us to a greater knowledge of Christ, and a deeper relationship with Him. Let us take our cue from Mary herself, and ponder all these things in our hearts (Luke 2:51).
In conclusion, I'd like to leave some tips when praying the Rosary:
1. Set aside a specific time each day for reciting the Rosary, and stick to it. Whether it's in the morning when you get up, or before you go to bed. Maybe when you get home from school, or after you finish homework. Or, possibly, even say a decade on the bus ride to and/or from school.
2. Pray with your heart, not just your lips, so that prayer becomes a joy to you rather than a burden.
3. Announce each Mystery, and name a prayer intention, whether for you or for another, that is specific to that Mystery, such as I've suggested in the listing of each Mystery. But by all means, be creative. My suggestions are just that: suggestions!
4. Pause for a moment to meditate on and visually contemplate the Gospel Mystery being said.
5. Make the Rosary part of a greater spiritual program in your life, that includes Mass, receiving the Eucharist, Confession, reading the Bible, and other things.
And remember, God helps you pray, and He understands when we just can't seem to. To Him, even the very desire to pray is itself a prayer. So stick with it.
God bless!
Pray for me!
Labels: Apologetics, Jesus, Prayer, Spiritual Warfare, The Blessed Virgin Mary
posted by Gregory at 5:19 p.m.
12 Comments:
"12. All those who propagate the Holy Rosary shall be aided by me in their necessities."
Well, you have that one covered...
"At this, both Protestant and Catholic readers have asked for a greater description of the Rosary, both the why and the how we should pray it."
You forgot the non-denom going towards Catholicism. [Me.]
"Used properly, the Rosary is a powerful spiritual weapon used to bring forth many heavenly graces and draw us closer to Jesus and Mary."
The first I understand with both heart and mind. The second... not so much, I'll admit. The Rosary is probably the biggest issue for me left with the Catholic Church: please forgive my skepticism and (likely) sarcasm.
"1. Whosoever shall faithfully serve me by the recitation of the Rosary shall receive signal graces."
Hmmm... serve Mary, or serve God... Why would I want to serve Mary?
"2. I promise my special protection and the greatest graces to all those who shall recite the Rosary."
By what power?
"5. The soul which recommends itself to me by the recitation of the Rosary shall not perish."
See above.
As a further comment, I still don't get (having already read the quoted post on the original blog) the point of the mysteries, or their significance.
Sincerely In Christ,
The Hidden One.
Hidden One said...
"12. All those who propagate the Holy Rosary shall be aided by me in their necessities."
Well, you have that one covered...
Tryin'
"At this, both Protestant and Catholic readers have asked for a greater description of the Rosary, both the why and the how we should pray it."
You forgot the non-denom going towards Catholicism. [Me.]
Dude, technically, you're still a Protestant. Heck, in this very comment, you still "protest" the Mary stuff ;)
"Used properly, the Rosary is a powerful spiritual weapon used to bring forth many heavenly graces and draw us closer to Jesus and Mary."
The first I understand with both heart and mind. The second... not so much, I'll admit. The Rosary is probably the biggest issue for me left with the Catholic Church: please forgive my skepticism and (likely) sarcasm.
I completely understand your hesitance. I shared it myself, when I was converting.
But I fail to understand where you're having trouble with the idea of growing closer to Mary. If we're all a big family, then, ideally, we should be striving to grow closer one with the other. The saints are still a part of that family, so why would we shrink back from growing closer to them. Having a personal relationship with Jesus in no way precludes, but rather includes having a relationship with the members of His Body--and especially His own Mother, whom He honoured above all others in choosing her to play such a pivotal role in the salvation of humanity!
And, on the other hand, the more we come to know and understand Mary, who is the pinnacle of Christ's creation, as well as the human being who was closest to Him, we cannot help but come to know, understand, and love in a greater way, Jesus Himself.
"1. Whosoever shall faithfully serve me by the recitation of the Rosary shall receive signal graces."
Hmmm... serve Mary, or serve God... Why would I want to serve Mary?
Well, first, because we must all serve each other in the body of Christ, and in serving each other, we actually serve Christ Himself (Matthew 25:31-46). Secondly, because as our Mother, we should honour and obey her in the Lord, for this is right (Ephesians 6:1ff), and finally, when Mary talks about "serving" her in this promise, she specifically limits that task to simply praying the Rosary. Now, if the Rosary is a powerful weapon of prayer that can bring us to a closer relationship with Jesus, then in "serving" Mary in this way, she is leading us to Jesus. Just as the servants at the wedding in Cana "served" Mary by obeying her instructions to "do whatever [Jesus] tells you" (John 2:5), we serve her in growing closer to Christ. That, quite simply, is why we would want to serve her--because nothing she would ever ask us to do would bring us away from Christ, and everything she asks us to do leads us closer to Christ than we could get on our own.
"2. I promise my special protection and the greatest graces to all those who shall recite the Rosary."
By what power?
By the power of Christ. In Protestantism, we are taught to think in dichotomous, either/or terms. Instead, Catholicism views most things in a both-and way. When Mary promises us grace and protection, it is not by her own power, but by the power of Christ through her intercession. Christ, in His divine providence, has chosen to use Mary as one (and a primary one) means of bestowing His grace to the world. But on her own, Mary is nothing.
Just as when the Angel Gabriel calls Mary "full of grace", he is not saying that she is full of her own grace, or that grace originates from her, but rather, God has filled her with grace, so too does she simply channel that grace given to her to overflowing, onto us.
"5. The soul which recommends itself to me by the recitation of the Rosary shall not perish."
See above.
See above for my answer. A soul who recommends itself to her, she in turn entrusts to Jesus. In other words, when we consecrate our lives to Mary, she devotes her eternal life in heaven to praying for us until we pass through the hour of our death and see Him in glory. We have, in her, the most powerful prayer warrior constantly praying for us. And, she's Jesus' Mom, to boot! Who's gonna mess with that?
As a further comment, I still don't get (having already read the quoted post on the original blog) the point of the mysteries, or their significance.
Sincerely In Christ,
The Hidden One.
You don't get that meditating on the life of Jesus Christ can only be a great good, and a means to grow closer to Him? You fail to understand the significance of key points in Jesus' life, and what they teach us about His love for us, and His mission to save souls? Then I seriously suggest you suspend your scepticism and try meditating on those same mysteries, and you will see firsthand their crucial importance!
I don't mean to sound sarcastic or flippant, and maybe I just don't understand the thrust of your question, but the aim of the Rosary is to help us know Christ better, so that we can become more like Him. It is the very definition of the "personal relationship with Jesus" that most Protestants go on and on about, but never really grasp.
Think about it.
God bless
Gregory
And feel free to keep searching, with an open and prayerful heart. I'm praying for you!
"Dude, technically, you're still a Protestant. Heck, in this very comment, you still "protest" the Mary stuff ;)"
That's like calling a small statue of Jesus a Christian, but whatever.
"And, on the other hand, the more we come to know and understand Mary, who is the pinnacle of Christ's creation, as well as the human being who was closest to Him, we cannot help but come to know, understand, and love in a greater way, Jesus Himself."
Why not do it directly?
"You don't get that meditating on the life of Jesus Christ can only be a great good, and a means to grow closer to Him? "
I don't get meditating. Possibly due to an elaborate un-understanding of it due to differing meanings, aims, and definitions of said term. Then again, I have a cold, and can't think straight enough to explain why The Party of 1984 should fear instinct (Strangely enough, I can write Newspeak poems easily - Orwell knew what he was doing) so I'm probably loop(ier than normal).
"You fail to understand the significance of key points in Jesus' life, and what they teach us about His love for us, and His mission to save souls? Then I seriously suggest you suspend your scepticism and try meditating on those same mysteries, and you will see firsthand their crucial importance!"
This sounds like another case of what my English teacher calls my 'intuitive and unthinking understanding' of stuff. (Which has had me nearly flunk both a Quotation Analysis, and an Annotation, but enough with that.) Maybe I should spend time thinking about those poitns in Jesus' life, in fact, I probably should. It is probably my Protestant (challenege everything) upbringing, but I still revolt against a custom I find very limiting, useful though it appears from a distance to be. The other point that bothers me is that its not Doctrine. While its nice that I don't have to use the Hail Mary, its disconcerting to me that it has not officially been stated as whatever it actually is. I seem to recall reading about a Pope Honorius who gave implicit support to a heretical belief, and it was said that if he had given a doctrinal sermon on it, he would have been divinely prevented from spouting untruth. Well, I'm probably wrong (God certainly has not stopped me from typing inaccurracies before) but I haven't encountered such a 'This is Truth' teaching on the Rosary. So I'm iffy on it. (I'm also iffy on the Church's (afaik) not-yet-doctrine stance on Evolution and the like,)
"I don't mean to sound sarcastic or flippant"
Don't worry - you don't sound flippant to me, or particularly sarcastic, and I have a higher tolerance for sarcasm than some anyway.
"but the aim of the Rosary is to help us know Christ better, so that we can become more like Him. It is the very definition of the "personal relationship with Jesus" that most Protestants go on and on about, but never really grasp."
Rats - the moment I read that I had the very same thought regarding 'someone I knwo needs to read this' that I've been taught not to have... anyway, I'm not sure I understand(/agree?) the reasoning behind your statement.
"And feel free to keep searching, with an open and prayerful heart. I'm praying for you!"
Thank you - it's reciprocal. And I'm gonna keep searching: specifically, asking you, seeking the Truth, and hopefully knocking on the door of a Catholic church sometime soon. (Scriptural reference fully intended and hopefully understood by myself.)
Sincerely In Christ,
Well, me.
Hidden One said...
"Dude, technically, you're still a Protestant. Heck, in this very comment, you still "protest" the Mary stuff ;)"
That's like calling a small statue of Jesus a Christian, but whatever.
I'm not entirely sure of the logic of your comparison, Hidden One. CS Lewis compares Christianity to a big house in Mere Christianity. He says that when we enter the house, we're saved, but each denomination is like a room in the house. We really have to pick one, because it's lonely out in the hallway. All the stuff goes on in the room.
Right now, you've left a Protestant room, and have ventured out into the hallway, and yes, you're looking at other rooms, but you haven't decided to enter any, and you're still approaching many things from your former Protestant room's perspective. Not everything, mind you, and you've changed your mind on a lot of issues. But when I went on the same journey, I discovered that becoming a Catholic wasn't just changing my mind about certain questions, but changing the very way I asked those questions. When I was a Protestant approaching Catholicism, I hesitated to call it "converting", because, hey, we're both Christian. But when I became a Catholic, I realised that it truly was a conversion, after all. Everything changes, even while much of it stays the same.
"< snip >we cannot help but come to know, understand, and love in a greater way, Jesus Himself."
Why not do it directly?
Why not? You're still approaching this from an either/or. Obviously, I still go directly to Jesus. But now, along with that, I realise I have the help and prayers of all the saints, and especially His own Mother, giving me a fuller perspective than I can get on my own.
Have you ever seen one of those romantic comedies, like...I think it's Elizabethtown, but I could be wrong. They go back to his parent's place, and the girl meets the family, and really bonds with them. And this process helps her know even more about the guy she's dating--more about his life, his character, where he came from. It's stuff she couldn't learn directly from him, not because he didn't know himself enough to tell her, but because she didn't know him much at all, and wouldn't know where to begin with the questions.
But the insight of the family, and the stories they told, just because they were favourite experiences that they'd had, helped the couple's relationship to develop even more. It's like that in real relationships, and it's certainly like that in our relationship with Jesus. Mary and the saints, through their prayers, their stories, and the spiritual impact they have in ways that I can't explain, give us a more rounded knowledge of Jesus than we could arrive at on our own.
I don't get meditating. Possibly due to an elaborate un-understanding of it due to differing meanings, aims, and definitions of said term. Then again, I have a cold, and can't think straight enough to explain why The Party of 1984 should fear instinct (Strangely enough, I can write Newspeak poems easily - Orwell knew what he was doing) so I'm probably loop(ier than normal).
We're not talking about New Age, empty-your-mind, "Ohm..." stuff, HO. Dude, that's a terrible abbreviation...Anyway. The Bible tells us to meditate. Psalm 119 tells us that we should meditate on Scripture, and other psalms tell us to meditate on the things that God has done. Hmm. What's the Rosary do again?
Meditating isn't emptying our thoughts, it's focussing them, centring them on the things of God and turning them over and over in our minds. Exploring the truth from many different angles, until it becomes a part of us. This is what David means when he says, "I have hidden your word in my heart, that I might not sin against you." He didn't just read Scripture, he meditated on it, and let it get right into him.
"You fail to understand the significance of key points in Jesus' life, and what they teach us about His love for us, and His mission to save souls? Then I seriously suggest you suspend your scepticism and try meditating on those same mysteries, and you will see firsthand their crucial importance!"
This sounds like another case of what my English teacher calls my 'intuitive and unthinking understanding' of stuff. (Which has had me nearly flunk both a Quotation Analysis, and an Annotation, but enough with that.) Maybe I should spend time thinking about those poitns in Jesus' life, in fact, I probably should. It is probably my Protestant (challenege everything) upbringing, but I still revolt against a custom I find very limiting, useful though it appears from a distance to be. The other point that bothers me is that its not Doctrine. While its nice that I don't have to use the Hail Mary, its disconcerting to me that it has not officially been stated as whatever it actually is. I seem to recall reading about a Pope Honorius who gave implicit support to a heretical belief, and it was said that if he had given a doctrinal sermon on it, he would have been divinely prevented from spouting untruth. Well, I'm probably wrong (God certainly has not stopped me from typing inaccurracies before) but I haven't encountered such a 'This is Truth' teaching on the Rosary. So I'm iffy on it. (I'm also iffy on the Church's (afaik) not-yet-doctrine stance on Evolution and the like,)
The Rosary is a prayer. It's not doctrine, it's practice. Prayer is proclaimed by the Church to be a great spiritual good (and is one of the spiritual works of mercy). They didn't have to sit around and discuss that at a council. It's in the Bible!
The Church suggests and advocates many forms of prayer, but they won't doctrinally define a good practice because practice isn't doctrine.
However, in 1992, Pope John Paul II did write an entire Encyclical about the Rosary, and dedicated all of 2003 to the Rosary. If you want, you can read his whole encyclical online, here.
As far as evolution goes, the Church has declared (I believe that it was Pope Pius XII) that it can be believed that God created the world through evolutionary processes, so long as we do recognise God as creator, and that we believe that humanity was created as a special creative act by God, and not a purely natural product of the evolutionary process. One can also choose to believe in a literal 6 day creation, as well. The Church won't proclaim beyond that, because beyond that is the realm of science, not faith. The Church does not, and never has, dogmatically proclaimed on questions of science, except where the practice of science conflicts with morals or faith, such as embryonic stemcell research, or purely materialistic evolution. Your beliefs about evolution and Genesis are based on your personal interpretation of Genesis. What would happen if science did conclusively prove that the earth was older than your reading of Genesis allowed for? What would that do to the Church, if they adopted your stance, officially? The question of how God created the world is not a religious question, but a scientific one. Who created the world and Why are religious questions, and the Church is content to limit itself to answering those.
"but the aim of the Rosary is to help us know Christ better, so that we can become more like Him. It is the very definition of the "personal relationship with Jesus" that most Protestants go on and on about, but never really grasp."
I'm not sure I understand(/agree?) the reasoning behind your statement.
When I grew up in the Protestant Church, I was always taught I needed to have a personal relationship with Jesus. But how that relationship was to be developed and maintained was never really elaborated on. For some, perhaps, it was because they didn't know, because they'd never experienced it. For others, perhaps, it was just too nebulous a concept for them to define more clearly. The main thing I was taught was to read my Bible and pray. And yes, that helped. That served me learning more about Jesus, and yes, I was able to talk to Him and to develop that relationship. But reading the Bible was often dry and boring, and praying was often tiring and full of uncertainty. Sometimes other tools, or let's be honest, gimicks, were suggested, but most of them were simply faddish. Quite honestly, Bible reading and Prayer are two of the best ways to develop that relationship.
But no one taught me how to most effectively use those tools to grow in Christ, until I became a Catholic, and discovered, among the Church's riches, the Rosary, the Eucharist, the liturgy...All of it. Ironically, what so many Protestants accuse of being dead rituals, and what so many nominal Catholics took for granted, were the very things that were meant to bring us out of our individual selves and attempts to know God, by bringing us into Communion with Him through the Communion of the Saints, whether here on earth, or in heaven! In the Rosary, especially, the Bible and Prayer combine uniquely to maximise the use of each of those tools, and really accelerate our relationship with Christ, and with the rest of His Body, as well!
When in Bible College, I learned and read about the lives of many great saints, and their spiritual journeys and experiences of Christ went far beyond anything that I ever experienced as a tongues-speaking, Spirit-filled, spiritually sensitive Pentecostal.
The last straw for me, in checking out the Church, was when I read about the Catholic Charismatic Movement, and read some of the testimonies of the early participants. One guy, who was earnestly desiring the tongues thing, went to a retreat seeking it. He felt that he left, having been baptised with the Holy Spirit, and really meeting with Him, but never spoke in tongues. Back at his university, he was quietly praying the Rosary before one of his classes, and when he finished, he continued praying--in tongues! And through that, received that gift. When I read the account, I felt like St. Peter at Cornelius' house: "God has given the same gift to them!" I realised that if God could give a spiritual gift to someone during the practice of something I viewed to be at least halfways sinful, then indeed, it could not be sinful! And so, I began to try it, even before I fully believed the whole Mary deal. In fact, rather than asking Mary to pray for me in the beginning, I continued to ask Jesus to let me know if it was okay to ask Mary to pray for me!
Anyway, I've blathered on long enough. I really have to get on to other things now. God bless!
Gregory
"I'm not entirely sure of the logic of your comparison, Hidden One."
Well, I've read a couple dictionary definitions of Christian which jsut say 'little Christ,' which is what I was referring to. Anyway, on to mroe important stuff.
"Right now, you've left a Protestant room, and have ventured out into the hallway, and yes, you're looking at other rooms, but you haven't decided to enter any, and you're still approaching many things from your former Protestant room's perspective. Not everything, mind you, and you've changed your mind on a lot of issues. But when I went on the same journey, I discovered that becoming a Catholic wasn't just changing my mind about certain questions, but changing the very way I asked those questions. When I was a Protestant approaching Catholicism, I hesitated to call it "converting", because, hey, we're both Christian. But when I became a Catholic, I realised that it truly was a conversion, after all. Everything changes, even while much of it stays the same."
It really is converting, which is why I'm hesitant. I don't want to have to convert back. And yeah, I do look on a lot of things from a Protestant's point of view. With the exception of the stuff I knew I disagreed with (including Calvinism), I always held predominantly Protestant viewpoint because that's what I was taught. And if I hadn't realized that the Protestants were in err a long time ago, it would likely have taken a lot longer for me to change many of my views. As to how I ask questions... well, it has changed. Not completely, but it has. Maybe you jsut haven't noticed. *shrugs.
As to everythign changing... most of it already has.
"Why not? You're still approaching this from an either/or. Obviously, I still go directly to Jesus. But now, along with that, I realise I have the help and prayers of all the saints, and especially His own Mother, giving me a fuller perspective than I can get on my own."
Actually, not really, no. I approached it from a 'Why not the most direct method' point of view, msotly just to read your response.
"However, in 1992, Pope John Paul II did write an entire Encyclical about the Rosary, and dedicated all of 2003 to the Rosary. If you want, you can read his whole encyclical online, here."
For the moment, due to time constraints, I must pass on that. On the other hand, its nice to know that the Church is nto at all uncertain on the Rosary.
"As far as evolution goes, the Church has declared (I believe that it was Pope Pius XII) that it can be believed that God created the world through evolutionary processes, so long as we do recognise God as creator, and that we believe that humanity was created as a special creative act by God, and not a purely natural product of the evolutionary process. One can also choose to believe in a literal 6 day creation, as well. The Church won't proclaim beyond that, because beyond that is the realm of science, not faith. The Church does not, and never has, dogmatically proclaimed on questions of science, except where the practice of science conflicts with morals or faith, such as embryonic stemcell research, or purely materialistic evolution. Your beliefs about evolution and Genesis are based on your personal interpretation of Genesis."
I was always udner the opinion that Creation was history, and it was merely the proofs thereof that were science. And as to arguing that its good to use personal interpretation when reading the Bible... that's my whole stumbling block, having already accepted the Catholic principle that the Bible should be interpreted authoritively and not personally [the whole (counter-Protestantism) divided-church argument.]
"When I grew up in the Protestant Church, I was always taught I needed to have a personal relationship with Jesus. But how that relationship was to be developed and maintained was never really elaborated on. For some, perhaps, it was because they didn't know, because they'd never experienced it. For others, perhaps, it was just too nebulous a concept for them to define more clearly. The main thing I was taught was to read my Bible and pray. And yes, that helped. That served me learning more about Jesus, and yes, I was able to talk to Him and to develop that relationship. But reading the Bible was often dry and boring, and praying was often tiring and full of uncertainty. Sometimes other tools, or let's be honest, gimicks, were suggested, but most of them were simply faddish. Quite honestly, Bible reading and Prayer are two of the best ways to develop that relationship."
Less the 'gimicks' bit, this is the selfsame argument against Catholicism that I mentioned to you a few days ago. In this case, I am of the opinion that it depends on where you go [what church(es)].
"When in Bible College, I learned and read about the lives of many great saints, and their spiritual journeys and experiences of Christ went far beyond anything that I ever experienced as a tongues-speaking, Spirit-filled, spiritually sensitive Pentecostal."
Belief in the accuracy of history in regards to those saints is antoher thing driving me towards Catholicism. I've seen too many sham miracles.
"I realised that if God could give a spiritual gift to someone during the practice of something I viewed to be at least halfways sinful, then indeed, it could not be sinful!"
Compelling argument, indeed. (No sarcasm.)
"And so, I began to try it, even before I fully believed the whole Mary deal. In fact, rather than asking Mary to pray for me in the beginning, I continued to ask Jesus to let me know if it was okay to ask Mary to pray for me!"
Which will probably be how it happens with me.
"Anyway, I've blathered on long enough. I really have to get on to other things now. God bless!
Gregory"
God bless you, too.
My stumbling block with Mary vs the other saints, [and an unspoken core of many Protestant arguments I've heard, I'll admit] is why Mary gets so much more veneration than the other saints. Logic-wise, I'm slowly getting past that.
Sincerely In Christ,
Hidden One.
PS: "We're not talking about New Age, empty-your-mind, "Ohm..." stuff, HO. Dude, that's a terrible abbreviation..."
Yup, it really is.
I'm rather enjoying this discussion!
Hidden One said...
"I'm not entirely sure of the logic of your comparison, Hidden One."
Well, I've read a couple dictionary definitions of Christian which jsut say 'little Christ,' which is what I was referring to. Anyway, on to mroe important stuff.
LOL, by that logic, a statue of Christ would be a Christian! That's funny. But a Christian is a little bit more than simply "a little Christ", as I'm sure you would agree.
It really is converting, which is why I'm hesitant. I don't want to have to convert back. And yeah, I do look on a lot of things from a Protestant's point of view. With the exception of the stuff I knew I disagreed with (including Calvinism), I always held predominantly Protestant viewpoint because that's what I was taught. And if I hadn't realized that the Protestants were in err a long time ago, it would likely have taken a lot longer for me to change many of my views. As to how I ask questions... well, it has changed. Not completely, but it has. Maybe you jsut haven't noticed. *shrugs.
I have noticed the change. I'm amazed and impressed with how far you've come in such a short time! God's really pulling. As for the hesitancy, I was fully convinced for three years, on everything except Mary, and I still was reluctant to begin RCIA. So it's perfectly understandable!
As to everythign changing... most of it already has.
Very true, as I've seen from your debates with other Protestants!
"Why not? You're still approaching this from an either/or. Obviously, I still go directly to Jesus. But now, along with that, I realise I have the help and prayers of all the saints, and especially His own Mother, giving me a fuller perspective than I can get on my own."
Actually, not really, no. I approached it from a 'Why not the most direct method' point of view, msotly just to read your response.
Touché. There is nothing prohibiting us from going straight to Jesus (except mortal sin--but that's what Confession is for ;) ). It's just, "Since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses..." why not get them to pray for us, as well?
"However, in 1992, Pope John Paul II did write an entire Encyclical about the Rosary, and dedicated all of 2003 to the Rosary. If you want, you can read his whole encyclical online, here."
My bad, Pope John Paul II wrote the rosary encyclical in 2002. I don't know why I said 1992.
For the moment, due to time constraints, I must pass on that. On the other hand, its nice to know that the Church is nto at all uncertain on the Rosary.
It was JP2's favourite form of prayer!
"As far as evolution goes, the Church has declared (I believe that it was Pope Pius XII) that it can be believed that God created the world through evolutionary processes, so long as we do recognise God as creator, and that we believe that humanity was created as a special creative act by God, and not a purely natural product of the evolutionary process. One can also choose to believe in a literal 6 day creation, as well. The Church won't proclaim beyond that, because beyond that is the realm of science, not faith. The Church does not, and never has, dogmatically proclaimed on questions of science, except where the practice of science conflicts with morals or faith, such as embryonic stemcell research, or purely materialistic evolution. Your beliefs about evolution and Genesis are based on your personal interpretation of Genesis."
I was always udner the opinion that Creation was history, and it was merely the proofs thereof that were science.
That God created the world is history. How God created the world, not so much. The beginning of Genesis isn't straight-up historical narrative. If it was, chapters 1 and 2 would contradict.
And as to arguing that its good to use personal interpretation when reading the Bible... that's my whole stumbling block, having already accepted the Catholic principle that the Bible should be interpreted authoritively and not personally [the whole (counter-Protestantism) divided-church argument.]
I think you're referring to when I said we have liberty to choose how we interpret that particular passage, and are equating that with the Protestant ideal that we can each interpret all of Scripture. The Catholic Church hasn't dogmatically ruled on the correct interpretation of every passage in the Bible. Where it hasn't, there is some room for discussion--but even then, proper exegetical practices must be used, and the Church still has certain boundaries that can't be contradicted.
If a person wants to take a literalistic view of Genesis 1 and 2, the Church permits that, but it doesn't endorse it.
The main thing I was taught was to read my Bible and pray. And yes, that helped. That served me learning more about Jesus, and yes, I was able to talk to Him and to develop that relationship. But reading the Bible was often dry and boring, and praying was often tiring and full of uncertainty. Sometimes other tools, or let's be honest, gimicks, were suggested, but most of them were simply faddish. Quite honestly, Bible reading and Prayer are two of the best ways to develop that relationship."
Less the 'gimicks' bit, this is the selfsame argument against Catholicism that I mentioned to you a few days ago. In this case, I am of the opinion that it depends on where you go [what church(es)].
Perhaps.
"When in Bible College, I learned and read about the lives of many great saints, and their spiritual journeys and experiences of Christ went far beyond anything that I ever experienced as a tongues-speaking, Spirit-filled, spiritually sensitive Pentecostal."
Belief in the accuracy of history in regards to those saints is antoher thing driving me towards Catholicism. I've seen too many sham miracles.
That's one of the things I love about Catholicism. It's not afraid to put the miraculous under the microscope, and declare shams to be shams, and uphold the genuine. They've actually got pretty rigorous standards!
"I realised that if God could give a spiritual gift to someone during the practice of something I viewed to be at least halfways sinful, then indeed, it could not be sinful!"
Compelling argument, indeed. (No sarcasm.)
Thank you. I thought so. :)
"And so, I began to try it, even before I fully believed the whole Mary deal. In fact, rather than asking Mary to pray for me in the beginning, I continued to ask Jesus to let me know if it was okay to ask Mary to pray for me!"
Which will probably be how it happens with me.
"Anyway, I've blathered on long enough. I really have to get on to other things now. God bless!
Gregory"
God bless you, too.
My stumbling block with Mary vs the other saints, [and an unspoken core of many Protestant arguments I've heard, I'll admit] is why Mary gets so much more veneration than the other saints. Logic-wise, I'm slowly getting past that.
Well, mainly it's simply, God elevated her above all others when He chose her to bear His Son. It's a privelege no one else ever had, or will ever get! Everything else flows from that.
Sincerely In Christ,
Hidden One.
PS: "We're not talking about New Age, empty-your-mind, "Ohm..." stuff, HO. Dude, that's a terrible abbreviation..."
Yup, it really is.
LOL. God bless
Gregory
"I'm rather enjoying this discussion!"
Me too. I don't feel guilty that I'm pretty much the only person involved in these discussions and debates at the moment, but I wish more of my RL friends would involve themselves here, instead of just reading the discussions. (Or involve themselves more often.) Oh well.
"LOL, by that logic, a statue of Christ would be a Christian! That's funny. But a Christian is a little bit more than simply "a little Christ", as I'm sure you would agree."
Very much so...sadly, not everyone so agrees!
"I have noticed the change. I'm amazed and impressed with how far you've come in such a short time! God's really pulling. As for the hesitancy, I was fully convinced for three years, on everything except Mary, and I still was reluctant to begin RCIA. So it's perfectly understandable!"
In that case, I may just be perfectly understood.
"Very true, as I've seen from your debates with other Protestants!"
I'm trying to have a 'when in doubt, the Catholics are right' frame of mind, but I also want and need to know why.
"Touché. There is nothing prohibiting us from going straight to Jesus (except mortal sin--but that's what Confession is for ;) ). It's just, "Since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses..." why not get them to pray for us, as well?"
Good point. (Touché yourself.)
BTW, for others reading this blog, Gregory's quuote comes from Hebrews 12:1.
"My bad, Pope John Paul II wrote the rosary encyclical in 2002. I don't know why I said 1992."
Me either. Oh well... after my English seminar on 1984 is done, I'll start reading it.
"It was JP2's favourite form of prayer!"
Well...
"That God created the world is history. How God created the world, not so much."
To me, that's kinda like saying, "That Jesus Christ died on a cross and rose 3 days later is history. Why, not so much."
"The beginning of Genesis isn't straight-up historical narrative. If it was, chapters 1 and 2 would contradict."
Well, if both chapters were understood literally, I definitely agree with you.
"Perhaps."
Though I'll certainly admit that correct theology helps.
"That's one of the things I love about Catholicism. It's not afraid to put the miraculous under the microscope, and declare shams to be shams, and uphold the genuine. They've actually got pretty rigorous standards!"
Hmmmm...I mgiht just be interested in reading them, eventually.
"Well, mainly it's simply, God elevated her above all others when He chose her to bear His Son. It's a privelege no one else ever had, or will ever get! Everything else flows from that."
Which is pretty much the logic I've been using.
"LOL. God bless
Gregory"
God bless you too.
Sincerely In Christ,
Hidden One
Hidden One said...
I don't feel guilty that I'm pretty much the only person involved in these discussions and debates at the moment, but I wish more of my RL friends would involve themselves here, instead of just reading the discussions. (Or involve themselves more often.) Oh well.
Hey, if they're reading them, that's good enough for me!
"Very true, as I've seen from your debates with other Protestants!"
I'm trying to have a 'when in doubt, the Catholics are right' frame of mind, but I also want and need to know why.
Absolutely. And I'm trying to give that answer when I can!
"That God created the world is history. How God created the world, not so much."
To me, that's kinda like saying, "That Jesus Christ died on a cross and rose 3 days later is history. Why, not so much."
Thing is, biblical literature must be properly understood as to the context and the meaning of the writer. The first chapters had more to do with describing the fact that God is all powerful, and created an ordered and Good world. Notice the seven-fold (ie perfect) emphasis on the world's goodness! This is the message of Genesis 1--that God has a plan and a place for everything, and that nothing is out of His control. It is not meant to be taken literally. Even Augustine, at the end of his Confessions, when he writes a brief treatise, "On the Literal Interpretation of Genesis", interprets it more as metaphorical than straight-up seven days.
"The beginning of Genesis isn't straight-up historical narrative. If it was, chapters 1 and 2 would contradict."
Well, if both chapters were understood literally, I definitely agree with you.
Right. So which do we understand literally, and which is figurative, and why?
"Well, mainly it's simply, God elevated her above all others when He chose her to bear His Son. It's a privelege no one else ever had, or will ever get! Everything else flows from that."
Which is pretty much the logic I've been using.
That pretty much sums it up. As the Catechism itself states, everything we believe about Mary reflects or more greatly instructs us about what we believe about Christ. It's all about Him, and she'd be the first one to say it (John 2:5).
God bless!
"Hey, if they're reading them, that's good enough for me!"
Well, some are... at least occasionally.
"Absolutely. And I'm trying to give that answer when I can!"
And you're doing a pratty good job, in my book. I like reading your debates with other people too... cause they ask different Qs and use different arguments than I do, and when I read your responses, I tend to find out more of the Truth.
"It is not meant to be taken literally."
I (still) disagree.
"Right. So which do we understand literally, and which is figurative, and why?"
Mostly, when it comes down to it, Genesis 1 makes sense to me as a literal passage, and I'm always inclined to take something literally until I see evidence otherwise, and I haven't.
" everything we believe about Mary reflects or more greatly instructs us about what we believe about Christ. It's all about Him, and she'd be the first one to say it (John 2:5)."
It would appear that these beliefs about Mary do instruct us. And it is all about Him.
"God bless!"
U too.
Sincerely In Christ,
Hidden One.
Well, whenever it is that we can get together and meet, and I can give you your b-day gift, I'll have some other literature for you as well--some on Mary, some, briefly, on Genesis.
As far as reading other debates that I've had, the current one seems to have sadly fizzled out!
God bless
Gregory
Maybe soon we can have a conv on MSN about getting together, without getting cut off by something. (Quel concept!)
As for other debates...I think that one still has soem life in it....
Sincerely in Christ,
Hidden One.
Hope so.
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